ST:XI and Endgame

[ftsvd]

So... what do you guys think? Did Janeway get her favourite mug broken by the Fen-do-mar or was she safely whisked back into the Alpha quadrant by Future Janeway? In other words, did she take 7 years or 23 years to get back to the Alpha Quadrant?

If we 'happily' look at the Endgame events, the 'future' which Future Janeway comes from is obliterated by her journey into the past (the present). But if we were to draw parallels to ST:XI, then TOS/TNG/VOY/DS9 have been 'obliterated' by Future Spock's journey into the past.

On the other hand, to maintain keep the original TOS/TNG/VOY/DS9 universe, we need to assume that ST:XI is just an alternate reality that doesn't disturb the Trek universe we have known for so long. If we do this, we also have to assume that when Future Janeway went back in time, it didn't disturb the Voyager-didn't-get-back-until-23-years-later timeline. There will still be a timeline that Voyager is stuck in the Delta Quadrant where Tuvok will go mad, Seven and Chakotay will die, and Janeway will break her favourite coffee mug. In other words, Future Janeway would have died for nothing.

Of course, if we accept all the alternate realities, then the entire Trek storyline becomes meaningless (i.e. Riker willing to fire upon Worf to save himself from the Borg... (TNG:Parallels))

So, what actually happened? Did Future Janeway come back and obliterate TOS/TNG/VOY/DS9 or is the real Voyager crew still stuck in the Delta Quadrant?

[kalkamel]

As a physician, shouldn't you concentrate on finding the cure for cancer or AIDS or H1N1 instead of troubling your mind over such trivial matters? You're a doctor, not a fanboy, goddamit!

[ftsvd]

As a physician, shouldn't you concentrate on finding the cure for cancer or AIDS or H1N1 instead of troubling your mind over such trivial matters? You're a doctor, not a fanboy, goddamit!

Dammit kalk, it's not trivial - it's the entire space-time continuum we're talking about! *cue Q*

Besides, I've decided to specialize in something that lets me play with an equivalent of Phlox's imaging chamber everyday...

[jas]

yup yup. there is one TNG episode in which worf was travelling back and forth between diff timelines (something got to do with his temporal singature is out of sync). so this proof that there is multiple timeline exist in the same time. Like i said, the only constant and familiar trek as we know it is older spock who comes from the 2387 as we know it. rest is just not so sure anymore.

then again. i wouldn;t be too bothered with this alternative timeline thing. this is because we know that while there is a big swift to what we know (ie vulcan destroyed, Uhura and Spock, Kirk without dad, etc) a lot of it is still the same (ie, how the hell USS kelvin got destoyed apparently started a new timeline still eventually put the same TOS crew together? even as small detail as Sulu still do his fencing) thereforee it is safe to assume everything else remained the same.... TNG crews still the same crews...... DS9 and voyager too.... so not to worry.

[Dr EMH]

Did Janeway lose at Delta Quadrant? How come I didn't know? I thought she is just taking an extended vacation to visit her Borg friends, that's all.

[ftsvd]

then again. i wouldn;t be too bothered with this alternative timeline thing. this is because we know that while there is a big swift to what we know (ie vulcan destroyed, Uhura and Spock, Kirk without dad, etc) a lot of it is still the same (ie, how the hell USS kelvin got destoyed apparently started a new timeline still eventually put the same TOS crew together? even as small detail as Sulu still do his fencing) thereforee it is safe to assume everything else remained the same.... TNG crews still the same crews...... DS9 and voyager too.... so not to worry.

Captain, I'm not sure if you got my point - The question is not whether the original crews 'get together again' - but it's whether we can accept the different ways that they disrupt the timeline. Let me put it this way:

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Original Voyager timeline - they took 23 years to get back home.
Endgame timeline - they took 7 years to get back home.

In this case, we accept the alternate timeline (i.e. the Endgame timeline) and assume that the original timeline (where Future Janeway comes from) has been obliterated. If you say that they haven't been obliterated, it means that all possibilities that happen do happen, and it makes no sense anymore (TNG:Parallels).

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Original Trek timeline - TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY
ST:XI timeline - New version of TOS

If we follow the alternate timeline like we did above (by accepting the Endgame timeline), then TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY is obliterated. Unless, we accept the infinite alternate realities ala TNG:Parallels again...

it is safe to assume everything else remained the same.... TNG crews still the same crews...... DS9 and voyager too.... so not to worry.

This part I have to agree with you - that alternate realities tend to end up 'similar' to each other in the Trek universe. See how a Constitution-class starship gets dragged back into the 2155 mirror universe, and mirror Kirk, Spock and McCoy still end up serving together on *another* Constitution-class a hundred years later!

[jas]

Captain, I'm not sure if you got my point - The question is not whether the original crews 'get together again' - but it's whether we can accept the different ways that they disrupt the timeline. Let me put it this way:

I think i know what is your point. u r saying whether we can accept this new movie as the new story to replace what we know. if you look at it from a linear perspective, then no. this is because the familiar character as we know it is of a diff timeline (in effect 2 diff person). Is like, if your wife is replaced by another same person of a diff timeline or even alternative universe, is it still the same wife?

I know the above is a big question since it is a person we are living with. But as far as fictional story goes, I am ok with it. I remembered in another ST episodes (can't even remembered which one and which character), there was a person (think may be someone in voyager) that keep going back in time but he/she was too weak to transport back to his own timeline. But the guy/gal from the alternative timeline was "fresh" and he/she instead transported back to the timeline as we know it. Since we accepted that person as the alternate new version as we know it. we could do the same for ST XI.

Since a lot is still the same, we just igored a few changes (ie, the above list) and watch it from there.